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Asymmetric theory on interracial dating and attraction

06/21/08

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An AP news article by Dionne Walker a couple of weeks ago that black women are increasingly dating men of other races reminded me of a theory on interracial dating I developed back in my college days. Since I didn't start Asymmetric until twenty years later, the theory languished in the little corner of my mind I reserve for interesting inconsequentialities until now, when I get to share it with my readers.

First, a few caveats. I consider this story and interracial dating in general to be morally neutral- neither bad nor good- and of little consequence to the lives of Americans. Second, Americans get more upset over race than religion and politics put together- more than even dog fighting- but I only intend to make what I feel is an interesting observation so don't get upset. Third, I’m speaking in the broadest of generalities and my own now-shelved proclivities have often contradicted this theory. Finally, I recognize that other factors may be at work, but I'll purposely limit the scope of the discussion to my little idea. If you know of something interesting on the subject, let me know.

Here we go:

UCLA is definitely one of the most racially diverse campuses in the nation. When I attended in the late eighties and, I’m embarrassed to say, up to the early nineties, I'd say that about thirty five to forty per cent of the population was Asian, five per cent Hispanic, and ten per cent black with the rest being white. Most everybody got along fine despite the best efforts of some groups to antagonize.

Being a healthy young man, dating was often paramount of my preoccupations and I routed many valuable hours from academics to explore dating's many mysteries of which an interracial dating disparity was one. As I walked around campus, I began to notice patterns in interracial dating: Black men with white women were a common pairing as were white men with Asian women. One saw the occasional black man with an Asian woman. It was very rare, however, to see black women with white men or white women with Asian men and I never saw a black woman with an Asian guy. Everybody loved Cubans (just kidding-I couldn't resist).

When the subject came up with my friends, which was quite frequently, I noticed a regular form as well. My male Asian friends bemoaned the white guys scooping up the available Asian women (one guy even said he'd go back to China to find a wife) and the black women would complain that the black men's preference for women of other races limited their dating opportunities, although their actual statements may have been more colorful.

Sensing a rare moment of relevancy, it's here that some, especially those populating blank-studies departments across the nation, start talking about the legacy of this or the power of that or the dominant culture whatever. I've learned to ignore such people, but I'll just quickly dismiss a few things that can’t be overriding factors: If culture or economic power were a major component in Asian-white dating, for example, we wouldn't see such a large disparity between types of couples. In other words, why would the dominant class send the message that it’s OK for Asian women to date white men, but not the reverse? At one time and in various parts of the country, it was true that white men, as described best in Ellison's Invisible Man and Eldridge Cleaver’s Soul on Ice, found black men threatening and intimidated both white women and black men from sharing each other’s company. But if racist whites possessed such power today, certainly we’d see more black women with white men instead of its observable reverse.

The common error made by blank-studies specialists and other Marxist-influenced grievance groups is that in packing every societal phenomenon into the tiny suitcase that makes up their political views, they often leave the obvious explanations in the closet.

And what is the obvious? In this case, the disparate pairings exist because females or males of this group find opposite-sex members of another group more attractive than the obverse relationship. To be precise, black men find white women more attractive than black women find white men or white men find black women, and white men find Asian women more attractive than white women find Asian men. Calm down, please.

Why would this be? Let's assume the commonsensical idea that men consider feminine women alluring and that women seek more masculine men. That men would rather date Anna Kournakova than Martina Navratalova and that women would sooner go for Russell Crowe than Tommy Tune seems beyond debate.

Now, masculine and feminine behavior is, I believe, almost completely based in culture and values. The men camping outside the theater to get their tickets to Rent are the descendants of the Vikings who waited beyond Paris for a chance to pillage. However, different cultures at different times vary in the degree to which its men buy into the confrontational, intimidation-based, yet honorable and external-oriented protective traits that most people associate with masculinity. At this time in the American story, and for a variety of reasons, especially outside of the South, black men are generally considered to be more masculine than their white brothers and the same pattern holds true for the distaff. Eldridge Cleaver brings up the same point in the aforementioned Soul on Ice. His point isn't completely convincing, but whatever truth it contained is certainly more valid today compared to the sixties when many of the men had just participated in an undertaking known as World War II.

Physically, the same principal applies, but without the cultural component, of course. The PG-13ish nature of this blog and my own inclination prohibit specific delineation, but from a purely physical perspective, men and women of different races are seen as being differently endowed with masculine or feminine features, respectively- from hair length to other lengths; body structure, etc. This isn't to be taken as one race being "more beautiful" than another race. We know that concepts of prettiness and handsomeness have more to do with "health signs" like hemispherical symmetry, lack of evidence for disease like healthy skin and hair, and signs of fertility like hip-waist ratio. Height is important for men.

Here, I’ll admit that my blank-studies brothers and sisters have a point in that culture interferes with this order. In race-conscious societies, like pretty much everywhere except the modern West, both dejure and unspoken codes of intermarriage prevent men and women from dating (and marrying, of course), other races. But that’s a whole other big thing that I may talk about later.

Anyways, I'm sorry if I offended, but this is one opinion I won't defend, because, simply, I don't care enough to argue.

Image from Amazon
Soul on Ice by Eldridge Cleaver

Image from Amazon
Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison

klum seal
Seal-Klum-like a more common sight than...

bowie and iman
...David Bowie and Iman-like.

Tags: , , ,
By nguirado ( Email ), 03:31:02 pm, 1164 words
PermalinkCategories: Culture :: 19 comments »

19 comments

Comment from: chris [Visitor] Email
This is a nice little racsist piece. I'm not surprisd at all considering some of the banners and supporters that can be found throughout your site (kill all muslims, Odin defending Eurpope from the Muslims, etc..). Nice job of smoothing it over.


Chris
08/31/07 @ 10:13
Comment from: nguirado [Member] Email · http://www.nelsonguirado.com
If I'm being racist, whom am I putting down? Whites, blacks, or Asians? I'm trying to explain something that I used to notice and that people tell me they notice now. I'm not saying it's a bad thing or a good thing. I'm just trying to come up with a reason. What reason would you give for any disparity?

If you're saying that we just shouldn't talk about it, I agree that we talk about race too much, but this is maybe the second or third post out of over a thousand that discusses race.

And you're grossly misrepresenting anything that's ever appeared on this site. It's never had any racist stuff at all. In fact, I'd say the opposite is true.
08/31/07 @ 11:01
Comment from: cubanazo [Member] Email
I don't think your post is racist, what an over used epithet. Does it carry any meaning any more? I do question some of your assumptions, re black men being more masculine, for example. I have met some really fem black guys, so I just can't say that is true from experience. Also attraction is not the only reason people form, continue, or refrain from relationships. Cultural taboos play an important part and may deter relationships from forming in spite of a strong attraction between those of different ethnic and racial backgrounds.
09/01/07 @ 21:15
Comment from: nguirado [Member] Email · http://www.nelsonguirado.com
I was just trying to explain the disparity. I'm being very general here.
09/02/07 @ 09:54
Comment from: Ben [Visitor] Email
I think nguirado is correct in his/her observations. In fact, three times more interracial relationships are between black men and white women than vice versa. Instead of providing an alternative explanation for why this is, some posters feel compelled to dismi
dismiss the theory as racist without any justification.

If the primary reason why people in general form a relationship is because of attraction, then why is this not a workable theory? Women are attracted to robust, masculine men. You don't have to look any further then the demographic make up of professional athletes to come to the realization that black men
possess these qualities at a higher rate
than white men a disproportionate percentage of athletes are black when compared to the
general population.

The same argument can be made for the in-ordininate number of asian women who date
white men as compared with the inverse.
09/07/07 @ 20:44
Comment from: Sally [Visitor] Email · http://www.a1-date.com
I think that it's nobody business with whom you you date. Human can be good or bad, and it doesn't depend on his race. If a white man loves black woman, that's ok and they can be happy. We must stop racism.
09/12/07 @ 02:53
Comment from: nguirado [Member] Email · http://www.nelsonguirado.com
You're right. It isn't my business. I have 0 problem with interracial dating. I was just writing about a theory I had.
09/12/07 @ 11:49
Comment from: Ada [Visitor] Email
I say love is blind-colorblind.I'm never against interracial relationship.On the contray,i'm even for my white friend dating with a black guy whom she met on interracialmatch.com.And i 'm just give my best wishes to them.
10/20/07 @ 02:41
Comment from: nguirado [Member] Email · http://www.nelsonguirado.com
There's nothing wrong with it. I was just talking about the discrepancy.
10/20/07 @ 12:10
Comment from: Christopher Stiff [Visitor] Email
I think it all comes down the the individual
mindset of each person. If both partners can
deal with the flak that will certainly come
their way at some point in their relationship
then I say go ahead. Dating in most societies
is used to find a suitable mate. If that suitable mate happens to be of another race, then so be it. I like to think back on my art
training when thinking about this subject. The only time you see color is when there is light
to reflect it back to our vision. In complete darkness you are blind. I guess that's why Stevie Wonder seems and Ray Charles seemed to be so happy because that was one less care in life that they had. In fact some of the most happy people I have ever seen have been blind.

Don't want to get off into a rant so here is the conclusion. I think God uses all of this tension in the world to show us that things
are not right in this world. You can either open your mind to the truth or you can be in
darkness for the rest of your life. A virtuos woman is a good thing, and whoever can find
that woman no matter the race is definetly blessed. Obviously, I'm speaking to the fellows in that last sentence. God Bless.
10/28/07 @ 14:41
Comment from: Ben [Visitor] Email
I think more fat white women date black guys and I also think white guys like petite women (Asian women usually fit the bill. but it's hard to find a black woman that does).

Just observations from the sideline.
12/20/07 @ 12:41
Comment from: datingsadvice [Visitor] Email · http://www.afroromance.com/blog
However, while Americans proudly describe their nation as a “melting pot” today, Interracial relationships are still among the most psychoanalyzed topics. Despite research into such relationships, there have been few stories about why people from diverse, and sometimes antagonistic, worlds defy cultural bigotry and get married.
01/23/08 @ 22:19
Comment from: dwight [Visitor] Email
I dont necessariily agree with all of your comments s although some are quite valid. Something that shoul be adressed is that there are proportinately more college athletes that are black than many other
ethnic groups. Growing up in a poor in the projects and having the opportunity to go to a University was a huge experience in my life and as a student athlete
I had alot of experiences with female of other races
I had a girl tellme that her last boyfriend couldnt dance and that he embarrased her when he would try
i had couches who specifically told me to date white girls because her family wouldnt allow her to have the child if she were pegnant. But ultimatly I
think the lack of interraction between white women and asian men has alot to do with percived endowment and participation in traditionally male areas like
sports. As for black women I think that most Black
women were raised in homes with confident self
reliant women. This perceived strength is just as
much a cumbersome burden as it is an asset in
relatinships. The most succesful black males are
usually alpha males you dont get to far being a follower where im from. I think that there is
a tendancy for succesful black men to want a more docile woman, which explains the attraction toward
women of other cultures in which women played less
vocal roles. I think that the disproportionate financial success of black women compared to black men also has played a role in this, the fact is that there is a different respect level and this has nothing to do with the girl or guy rather it
involves upbringing and parental situations.
03/04/08 @ 14:38
Comment from: tom [Visitor] Email
hey 1 more question
are you telling me that most of the black men in UCLA are with white woman together?

please reply
08/13/08 @ 11:51
Comment from: bob [Visitor]
personally, i got nothing against interacial dating. there is one problem that i have seen with it though. i have seen many times a white (or other) woman being taken advantage of, whether she knows it or not, by a black (or other) male. my case being the "hit it and quit it" crap that the male pulls. next thing you know, she's knocked up and the baby's daddy is knocking up others as they speak. it doesn't happen alot but it does happen very frequently. another thing i've seen is the woman who got the souvenir of a baby, going after more men like the first, usually from a prison.
08/21/08 @ 16:45
Comment from: Dee [Visitor] Email
Hi. So I know that this comment is a tad bit late but i don't think that your article received the kind of respect it deserved. I think that today it takes great courage to observe something as controversial as interracial dating and then right your opinion on it. I think that the word "racists" is used far too loosely and with such great amount of misdirection. Topics such as these often miss out on necessary conversation, due to those quick to jump the gun on name calling. If you ask me, observation and study of who we are and how we work is exactly what society needs to produce progress. So I applaud you for speaking up.
06/07/09 @ 21:20
Comment from: desireemay at asian dating [Visitor] · http://cebuanas.com/gallery/index.php?gender=female
In having a date we always look forward for an interesting and exciting moments at the end of the day. Same goes with online dating, a bone tickling and enjoyable time with our date are what most of us expect to happen. interracial marriages are so known and widely practice not just with the celebrities but to ordinary people nowadays.


07/12/09 @ 23:13
"According to the Kama Sutra, males and females fit into three different categories due to the size and depth of their genitals. ....There are thus three equal unions between persons of corresponding dimensions, and there are six unequal unions, when the dimensions do not correspond, or nine in all....Amongst all these, equal unions are the best, ... those of a superlative degree, i.e. the highest and the lowest, are the worst, and the rest are middling, and with them the high 1 are better than the low"

-http://www.spaceandmotion.com/kama-sutra-partners.htm


It's actually not such a surprise to find that the ancient indians have already developed a theory, given that they've developed an entire caste system due to the Aryans migrating in from southern europe / middle east, into the indian subcontinent.

Recently (02/05/08) someone wrote Latest News: Creative Sexual Evolution at mathialee's web. Check it out!

09/12/09 @ 20:57
Comment from: Jo @ Asian dating [Visitor] · http://www.cebuanas.com/
Your post is just the bold truth in today's trend. The reality!
12/13/09 @ 22:55

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