Politics and Culture

FOR ALL THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND ..........................WHEN OBAMA SAID IT WAS ABOVE HIS PAY GRADE...................THAT WAS A FIGURE OF SPEECH WHICH MEANT..................AS FAR AS ABORTION FROM A MORAL STAND POINT THAT IS FOR GOD TO JUDGE................. IT IS A FIGURE OF SPEECH, HE'S SAYING THAT I CAN NOT JUDGE WHETHER A WOMAN HAVING AN ABORTION IS RIGHT OR WRONG .................ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE HER...............SERIOUS PEOPLE YOU GUYS TAKE EVERYTHING SOOOOOOOOOOOO LITERAL. I HONESTLY THINK THATS WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE HIM BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HIM. HE ACTUALLY TRIES TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING TO PEOPLE FROM A REAL STAND POINT BUT WE ARE ALL STILL SO DELUDED FROM LISTENING TO BS ALL THESE YEARS THAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND SOMEONE WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO BE HONEST AND FORTHRIGHT.

I second the motion...
Abarnett has it spot on.

The problem is that Obama believes the same as McCain that it begins at conception. He just can't say it. I understand that as he would get creamed by the left. I now know he is more faith based than I thought, but I wish he would say what he believes, rather than what he thinks people want to hear. Just because you believe that rights begin at conception does not mean you have to be pro-life, but everything is so black and white that he looked like an idiot answering the questiosn last night instead of being honest. Obama was so bad last night that I refuse to discuss it with my friends lol because I was so disappointed

Abarnett, being a democrat and listening to the bs for 8 years I can spot it dead on and last night Obama was spewing it so he better start bringing his A game because last night was dreadful, but I do not think many people watched so it shouldn't be too bad. The foreign newspapers are slamming him today.

Why isn't marriage or any of the other moral questions above his pay grade.

ed - sorry i have to respectfully disagree. At first, I thought that Obama wasn't at his best, but when I watched it again, I started to understand that he was trying to let people know where he stood, why he felt that way and what he plans on doing about it. Instead of McCain's one line zingers. I will admit that McCain did a better job than normally and he shined last night because people didn't expect much from him. But I am also a little confused on how he knew how to answer the question before it was asked and the upcoming questions. I am not trying to accuse him of cheating, but I will say its just a little suspect.

nguirado- what are you talking about? Marriage is not a life or death issue, the bible states the a marriage is a union between a man and a woman, ( now I don't believe that we have the right to stop 2 people from marrying that love each other what ever gender they are ) but when it comes to death and where life begins; who are we to say whats right or wrong? We have to stop judging people, none of us are in the position to condemn another person. "Let ye who have not sin, cast the first stone."

Abarnett,

I'm not referring to state action, but mere moral judgment. Why does he have an opinion on every other moral issue in the debate and even citing his religion as the source, but then can't state when he thinks humans become humans? He could have cited different opinions on the matter.

I am a Christian and I agree with Obama, it is a very difficult question to answer theologically. There are verses in the Psalms that imply God "knits" people in the womb that fundamentalists use to say life starts at conception. But there are verses in the Pentatuch that imply that the penalty for causing a miscarriage is far less than the penalty for infanticide, indicating that perhaps personhood does not happen until birth. The Bible is just not clear, no matter how loudly some people claim it is.

Scientifically, it is also very difficult to determine. At conception, if every fertilized egg were a person that means that some people (identical twins) are actually derived from a prior "person".Indeed, if we scientifically consider life to start at conception then some forms of birth control which rely on inhibiting implantation would be similar to abortion in the law. Do we define life as to when the heart starts, the brain waves start, the person is viable outside the womb, or something else? Who knows and by what standards do we determine this scientifically?

Basically, the wisdom of the Roe-v-Wade decision was that the government should stay out of this determination, and that women had a right to privacy to consult with their doctors and could choose to abort their fetus before the point of viability outside the womb. That way, the state stays out of our liberty until the fetus is capable of survival and citizenship. So, if you subscribe to the idea that life starts at conception, you simply would not choose abortion.

Interestingly about one-quarter of all pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage, most of them early on. If we consider that the outcome of many of them is a D&C, then how would the government go about investigating hundreds of these procedures to see if a crime (abortion) had occurred or if they were for some other reason? It would be a massive dilemma for law enforcement and incarceration rates.

I think that's a reasonable assessment of a point of view.

nguirado,

With all due respect, please tell me when he has made a moral judgment on something? If you ask someone what they believe in and they give you their opinion thats one thing but to say whether it is right or wrong and if someone will have to repent for their actions later is complete other. Now he stated where he stands on abortion, he's for woman's right. But that is a tough subject to say where life begins, my grandmother feels that once a man engages in any form of sex and produces semen then thats the point where life begins. And it is a sin to waste semen when not in the act of reproduction or to use birth control. I have a friend that feels at the beginning of the pregnancy thats when life begins, and then I have another friend that feels its not wrong to have an abortion after the first month because the brain doesn't start to develop until the 2nd month. Who are we to condemn someone and say that its a moral sin because life begins and the point of conception and it is wrong to have an abortion. Everything is not so black and white, there are a few gray areas and that happens to be one, we do not have the power to say the exact moment where life begins, but we should let a woman make this difficult decision for herself and let God handle the judgment.

Edward,

Very well said.

The non-profit status of the pastor's church should be revoked. He clearly chose the questions for McCain.

McCain made this political, this was suppose to be about faith, and he was far from it. Obama answered the questions based on faith, as he was suppose to. McCain sounded arragant unlike Obama which sounded sincere

Remember Obama was interviewed first!! Where was John McCain in a sound proof room? I felt that Obama was honestly answering the questions. I think McCain knew what the questions were, so he had time to think of what to say! I beleive in Obama and his change..He also has enough heart to say what he beleives in and not just what the crowd wants to here!


Consider this when you

Pastor Warren has admitted that there was no “cone of silence” and that John McCain was on his way to the studio when obama was interviewed. So, maybe both men did not receive the questions in advance. But maybe, just maybe McCain saw a portion of Obama’s interview.

Examine the following:

Warren’s questions on education to Obama:

“WARREN: OK. Let’s go to education. America right now ranks 19th in high school graduations. We’re first in incarcerations.

OBAMA: Not good.

WARREN: Not good. 80 percent of Americans recently polled said they believe in merit pay. Now, for teachers, do you - I’m not asking do you think all teachers should get a raise. Do you think better teachers should be paid better? They should be paid more than poor teachers?

OBAMA: I think that we should - and I’ve said this publicly, that we should set up a system of performance pay for teachers, negotiated with teachers, worked with the teachers to figure out the assessments, so that they feel like they’re being judged fairly, it’s not at the whim of the principal. That it’s not simply based on a single high stakes standardized test but the basic notion that teaching is a profession, that teachers are underpaid, so we need to pay them all more, but - and create a higher baseline, but then we should also reward excellence.

WARREN: Reward excellence.

OBAMA: I think that is a concept that all of us should embrace. [ applause ]”

Warren’s question on education to McCain:

WARREN: Let’s talk about education. America ranks 19th in high school graduations, but we’re first in incarcerations. Everybody says they want more accountability in schools.

MCCAIN: Um-hum.

WARREN: About 80 percent of America says they support merit pay for the best teachers. Now, I don’t want to hear your stump speech on education.

MCCAIN: Yes, yes, and find bad teachers another line of work. (APPLAUSE).

WARREN: You know, we’re going to end this, you’re answering so quickly. You want to play a game of poker?

Did you see an actual question to John McCain?

yes (what was the question?), yes (again, what was the question?) and find bad teachers another line of work. (What question is he answering?)

Was he answering the questions Warren had previously asked Obama?

Could it be that he had heard Obama’s answer, and then, answered Warren’s non-question with a sound bite.

Check out this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n83M-jgOaJQ

"When Obama was asked about when life begins, the pro-choice candidate said that decision is "above my pay grade."

The question was "When does LIFE begin."

Basically, the old does life begin at conception or at birth question.

Not only is this question above Obama's paygrade, it's above all our paygrades. Only God knows when human life begins. Anything we have to say on the matter is an opinion. I think he answered honestly. Basically, his answer was I don't know.

BTW I've always wanted to know the answer to this question: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

If that's above his pay grade why aren't any of the other questions?

Since a chicken would be an egg before it was a chicken, the egg would come first. Whatever laid the first chicken egg would be almost a chicken.

To Abarnett:

Obama was not asked to judge a women on her beliefs, or play to God. He was asked what he himself believes. He is afraid to say and stand up for what he believes, because he plays to audience and avoids answers. This says it better then I can
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzlhZjZhYWViYzA0MTg2NmE4NGM0YzlmMDgyMTgwZTI=

Edgar

That explains nothing, that's one man's OPINION. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But if you look at it again you will understand, that he was saying that as far as when life truly begins and whether it was a moral sin, that is for god to judge. But he did state where he stands on the matter and he is pro choice, he knows woman do not make that choice easily,and every case is different. People have to give Obama credit for even talking infront a forum like that when he knows they are pro life and mostly vote republican. Many people have different views on when life begins, like I said earlier my grandmother thinks its a sin for man to spill any semen if not in the act of reproduction. She feels thats the beginning of life and it is actually stated in the bible as such. So thats why Obama said thats above my pay grade because only god can judge that.

There's hundreds of things you can say are above our collective pay grades like passing judgment on a fellow citizen in a jury trial. Or whether or not to disconnect life support systems from a comatose patient. Just because there is a moral component to a question doesn't mean that there aren't policy implications involved. And of course there are HUGE policy implications involved in the debate about where life begins because NOBODY with half a brain is in favor of killing live human beings (at least ones that haven't committed crimes).

I find it interesting that liberals in America defend the right to life of convicted murderers and don't defend the right to life of innocent babies.

I for one am against abortion and capital punishment but that puts me in a very small minority. I prefer to err on the side of life in all cases. I guess I'm not as intimidated by pay grade.

Obama should have been better prepared to face these tough questions from a well-known, faith-based author. McCain prepared for this interview, and no, I don't believe he knew any of the questions, but knowing who he was going to speak with, he readily prepared for the type of questions asked. More importantly, McCain felt he could be honest. We need a President who can be honest and not play a political spectrum all the time. I want a straight shooter....20 years and Obama may be prepared to run. Right now, the experience and my vote is for McCain. I think this is just the beginning of what we will see in the debates...real answers from McCain...real vagueness from his opponent.

If its just a figure of speech and he was trying to explain himself, then why didn't he explain his comments of above his pay grade. If he is this ambassador of change who will transcend both parties and unify america, then why doesn't he tell us what he thinks is right and wrong and not what the liberal democratics have laid out for him? Don't you want to know what the man your going to vote for believes to be right and wrong. Not saying McCain is a saint, but he flat out said how he believes and votes on a very controversial topic. Not like the topics where a majority of american's already have their mind made up, therefore making it easy to voice their own personal views, but a very devisive topic like abortion. Kudos to McCain for at least making his views known, hopefully Obama will be a litte more clear and precise next time!

The question was not when did live begin. You are all terrible at reading or listening or both. The question was When do babies get human (legal) rights?

Every person who has taken a Constitutional Law class has to answer this question. He has to have an answer on his opinion on legal rights to infants.

The only reason not to give it, is if it is so extremely liberal, ie parents can kill babies born alive, if they wanted to abort, that if he said it out loud he would be booed off the stage.

wether he believed it was above his pay grade for god to judge or not that was a debate and a straight foward question instead of beating around the bush why didnt he just say that he belives that life begins at concepetion but that under certain circumstaces a woman should have the right to choose wether to "Kill" her baby or not im Pro Life... obama is so wishy washy with almost every question asked of him that night he should of just stuck to his guns said what he really thinks not what the american public wants to hear this isnt hollywood if you want to win a popularity contest then join a peagent dont run for president smile in the american publics face tell us what we want to hear just because we are in a stage where we need change and we want change so youll tell us the typical bs a SHADY politicians tells us... NOBama '08 vote for a real american war hero.

Obama is such a piece of shit. So what if he is Pro-Choice. If he has a stance, he should back it -- instead of pussyfooting around the issue with this cryptic 'paygrade' response. Is that who you want to be representing the US? He'll be deciding our future as soon as the next CNN poll comes in. By the way, Obamas pay grade is better than 99.4% of the US population. Reporting $4.2 M (yes, thats million) in 2007.

The depth of obama's answer on this particular question is for me an "inspiration" from above.. Only God knows our motives.. only God can certain everything.. only God can make judgment..afterall, everything in ourselves is under our own personal choices..that's why, we should be responsible of ourselves.. I do believe that this guy is really doing his best to answer every question, be it a "silly" or serious ones.. I'm just a mere observer, but I could certainly sense who is telling the truth and doing his best.. my prayer goes to Sen. Barack Obama. God bless His chosen one, and God bless everyone of us!!