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Nancy Pelosi and St. Augustine on abortion
08/25/08
Tom Brokaw interviewed Nany Pelosi on abortion. During the course of the interview, she said:
Brokaw: …“I if [Obama] were to come to you and say ‘help me out here, Madam Speaker, when does life begin,’ what would you tell him?
Pelosi: “I would say that as an ardent practicing Catholic this is an issue that I have studied for a long time, and what I know is over the centuries the doctors of the Church have not been able to make that definition. And St. Augustine said three months. We don’t know. The point is it that it shouldn’t have an impact on a woman’s right to chose.”
Pelosi is correct as you can read in the Catholic Encyclopedia. The problem for St. Augustine and other Catholic philosophers (and the pagan ones as well) was a lack of scientific knowledge about the fetus. Once they obtained that knowledge, the Church began to teach that life begins at conception.
The problem for Nancy Pelosi is that the Church is a top-down, authoritative institution where, on faith and morals, communicants aren't allowed to interpret God's law. In other words, Pelosi can learn about the philosophical theories and medical facts concerning abortion, but, as an "ardent" Catholic, she must follow the teaching of the Church.
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Dylan and Pelosi:
OK. It was Joan Baez singing I dreamed I saw St. Augustine.
**update** Augustine on abortion:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, wrote in On Exodus (ca. 415) that early abortion should not be regarded "as homicide, for there cannot be a living soul in a body that lacks sensation due to its not yet being fully formed." Augustine believed that "hominization" took place at forty days after conception for males and eighty days for females. This view has been termed "delayed hominization" or "mediate animation," in contrast to "immediate animation/hominization" where the human soul is thought to exist from conception. However, in another work, On Marriage and Lust, Augustine condemned both abortion and contraception as immoral, since they permit sexual intercourse to occur without procreation, which he (like earlier Stoic philosophers) thought to be its only "natural" purpose.
6 comments
Please explain where on your link to the Catholic encyclopedia there is any proof that Pelosi is right about St. Augustine. 
I can't believe that St Augustine can be taken so out of context regarding the most horrific homicides of this century. Science and technology have given us more knowledge about the creation of human life. Let us also not forget that God has gifted us with the realm of science to open our mind to the creation/possibilites for human existence. Please let this well-known woman know the ramifications of her spoken words. It is a shame! 
'Augustine believed that "hominization" took place at forty days after conception for males and eighty days for females.'Someone's confusing Augustine with Aristotle.
It seems there has always been disagreement as to when life begins. Whatever your argument is, it should also be consistent with when life ends. They are the same argument.I also find it ironic that Republicans who promote less government in every way want to get involved at all.
I think that Churches should enforce Church beliefs and that government should not be doing their job for them.
Religious beliefs should not be forced on people of other beliefs. That's what we see from the radical Islamists.
"The problem for Nancy Pelosi is that the Church is a top-down, authoritative institution where, on faith and morals, communicants aren't allowed to interpret God's law."This is partially true. The Church is infalliable on matters of faith but participants are free to act inside of these given precepts. Granted, she can't speak on behalf of the Church, but she can speak her mind.
All this to say that although the author may not have had pajorative thoughts about the Catholic church, the feelings toward Nancy rolled down into a hasty generalization.
I want to highly recommend Praxis Obnoxia for all to get and read. It is very scholarly, scholastic, concise, and very revealing concerning the Invalid Vatican II Rite of Baptism. From the discussions I am having, certain Bishops and Priests re-baptize Protestants and Novus Ordo converts alike to join them to the communion of their churches because of the defective practices performed by the sectarian ministers who allegedly baptized them. While other clergy are Indifferent or do not have a precise praxis. I hear various stories that lack uniformity of ritual. So, I feel this book is something Catholics should consider. I even met certain Orthodox and Uniate Catholic clergy who consider this a very hot topic between Old Calendar/New Calendar and New Ritual/Old Ritual persuasions. Some groups re-baptize, some only use chrismation, some also are unsure. Baptism is necessary by a necessity of means, and the validity of the other sacraments rely on its valid reception, so this is a most important topic.Here's a summary of the book and how you can get a copy:
Praxis Obnoxia: A Moral-Theological Conclusion On The New Modernist Rite of Baptism.
http://www.lulu.com/content/3824207
Praxis Obnoxia: A Moral-Theological Conclusion On The New Modernist Rite of Baptism, investigates the Novus Ordo "Praxis" of baptism as very questionable and positively doubtful for validity. The book provides ample documentation and a bibliography with sources from the Apostolic See, theologians, rubricians, and canonists, original liturgical texts in Latin and English, and lots of photographic illustrations. This book is strongly recommended for all who truly desire to be a good Catholic. For since the importance of receiving a doubtless valid baptism is so great, we felt it necessary to publish this work to be instrumental in the salvation of countless souls. We ask that after reading this book, to inform your neighbor, family, friends, and clergy about this book, lest all is lost.
http://www.Lulu.com/RomanCatholic
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